|
Post by ladyfiaran22 on May 22, 2020 9:53:24 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Tim on May 22, 2020 11:50:07 GMT -5
We shouldn't also forget that the Arabian world saved many old tomes from Greece and Rome during the Middle Ages. They brought us the numbers with 0 and all and also modern words in all languages. It's hard to say why they suddenly fall back.
Indeed, otherwise the Greek civilization might have been destroyed by the Hun barbarians.
God knows how much that would have set us back.
|
|
|
Post by ladyfiaran22 on May 23, 2020 8:37:08 GMT -5
Not to mention that Spain under the Moors was a lot more civilized than much of Europe and more prosperous. The Moors tended to leave Jews and Christians alone as long as they paid taxes and behaved, many Spaniards converted so they didn’t have to pay more taxes or serve in the military especially among poor people. Once the Moors got kicked out by Ferdinand and Isabella, Spain wound up with the Inquisition and a brain drain. Convivencia
|
|
|
Post by Tim on Aug 15, 2021 23:25:18 GMT -5
All the soldiers that died, from NATO and other countries (including 165 Canadian soldiers) , all the money that was spent. And for what? Afghanistan is right back where it was in 2001, with the Taliban in full control.
All of it was for nothing.
Guess we learned the same bitter lesson the Russians did in the 1980's, when they tried impose Communism on Afghanistan and got a bloody nose for their trouble. In the end, they threw up their arms and left, after having lost countless lives and accomplishing absolutely nothing.
30 years later, history repeats itself.
|
|
|
Post by Melinda Halliwell on Aug 16, 2021 3:36:13 GMT -5
Yep. It was said once UK troops were gonna leave the country it was the right time for the militants to strike then.
|
|
|
Post by Squad 51 on Aug 16, 2021 11:15:15 GMT -5
A big deja vu here. Afghanistan seems to be a country which can bring bigger ones down. First the Soviet Union and its dissolving, with its Communism and now the USA. Well, very hard lessons - for all countries involved.
|
|
|
Post by BettyNewbie on Aug 16, 2021 11:22:45 GMT -5
I hate that people are giving Biden so much heat over this when it's really Dubya's mess. He's the one who went into Afghanistan in the first place with no real plan, and he's also the one who diverted resources from that war into the even bigger waste of time and money that was Iraq. This is ALL on him.🙄 Neoconservatism is a failure. You can't spread democracy with military force. Democracy has to come from within, not from an outsider pointing a gun at you. All warmongering in the name of "spreading democracy" ends up doing is destabilizing countries and making them more susceptible to extremism and dictatorships. Just look at what became of Iraq and Syria after the US spent so much time there. Neoconservatism. Does. Not. Work.
|
|
|
Post by Tim on Aug 16, 2021 11:32:13 GMT -5
The reason that Biden is taking heat is because this happened on his watch. But he's right in saying that it wouldn't matter if U.S. troops stayed there another 20 years. If the Afghans are not willing to embrace change from within, then no outside force will do it.
The Russians learned this lesson in the 80's, and the U.S. is learning it now.
|
|
|
Post by evermorerose on Oct 13, 2023 23:14:34 GMT -5
I'm not sure whether starting a separate thread for the current Israel v. Hamas war would be alright when this thread still exists so I might as well post here until the mods give the go signal for a separate thread about the war to be created.
What I wanted to say about the current war is that its more complex than it seems. Both sides claim that the war is only ever about their respective side and foreigners can't chime in even if we come from a well-informed background and all. The thing is, the moment the Hamas and IDF bombs hit foreigners (especially non-combatants) was the moment the war became more than just Palestine's problem or Israel's problem. It's like how the Russian invasion of Ukraine eventually became the problem of foreigners too thanks to the combination of foreign nationals getting trapped in Ukraine during the opening days of the invasion and Ukrainian refugees moving all around the world (we even have refugees here in the Philippines).
And yet, ardent supporters of both sides of the Israel v. Hamas war like to treat the war like it's just a Call of Duty game but in real life especially because of the way they speak about civilian casualties, as if they are just targets to be liquidated.
|
|
|
Post by Melinda Halliwell on Oct 14, 2023 0:40:29 GMT -5
What's happening in Israel currently is such a shame and it's the general population there who suffer the most obviously.
But then the Gaza Strip area and who owns or wants it has been up for debate now for a long time then.
|
|
|
Post by Tim on Oct 14, 2023 11:21:42 GMT -5
Most of the current problems can be traced to the end of the First World War. All through the war, the Arabs were promised independence by the British and French, once the Ottoman Empire collapsed (the Ottomans were on the side Imperial Germany). British and French troops fought alongside the Arabs, including Thomas Edward Lawrence AKA Lawrence Of Arabia.
What happened? Britain and France went back on their promise to the Arabs, swooped in, and started drawing lines in the sand. And we're still reaping a bitter harvest from those decisions of a century ago.
|
|
|
Post by Squad 51 on Oct 14, 2023 16:14:28 GMT -5
Drawing boundaries on paper with no regrets to the local communities out there. Just to fit their own "wishes" for oil and more. Saw some documentaries about this issue.
|
|
|
Post by Tim on Oct 14, 2023 23:23:37 GMT -5
No one considered the long term consequences.
|
|
|
Post by evermorerose on Oct 15, 2023 6:30:55 GMT -5
No one considered the long term consequences. That's correct. It's why Israel and Palestine are even at odds with each other in the first place. The UK should have just left Mandatory Palestine the same way it left South Africa and India, that is, without messing with their borders before leaving. If secessions happen as a result, so be it, at least those will be in the terms of the natives, not the colonizers. On the other hand, what is happening in Gaza these days is very terrible. Egypt won't accept refugees from that place and the IDF and Hamas refuse to allow any humanitarian aid to enter that area. It's as if those two forces are 100% bent on committing genocide against the Gazans.
|
|
|
Post by adzpower on Oct 15, 2023 9:34:49 GMT -5
I just feel bad for all the innocent civilians on both sides that have and will be caught in this crossfire.
I don't take sides but Hamas has basically given Israel all the ammo it needed to go all-in on an invasion. They were likely hoping that more conflict would lead to more Palestinian terrorists for their cause, but that's now likely to fail since after Israel is done there probably won't be any left to join any cause!
|
|