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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Feb 25, 2022 8:45:21 GMT -5
For anyone wanting to learn more about history or recall certain periods of events they never knew about I link this YouTube channel from Dr David Starkey a famous English historian well known for his TV documentaries on 'Monarchy', 'The Six Wives Of Henry VIII', and 'Elizabeth I'. The videos are mainly either podcasts he's done from his house or lectures narrated in public.
Corrected the title. Was not Henry VII but Henry VIII.
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Post by Tim on Feb 25, 2022 12:15:15 GMT -5
Thanks, I'll be sure to take a look.
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Post by ladyfiaran22 on Feb 27, 2022 8:10:04 GMT -5
Thanks for the video, Katherine. I’ve read Dr. Starkey’s book on Henry’s wives and it’s one of the best I’ve read on the Tudors. While it does focus on Catherine of Aragon and Anne Boleyn, it’s very fair towards his other wives. I really liked that Catherine Howard was treated with respect, a lot of books treat her like she was an empty headed slut when she was actually a teenage girl forced to marry Henry by her greedy family. She was a pretty teenager married to an older man with ulcers on his legs and who was probably impotent, her family was at fault for this whole mess
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Feb 27, 2022 14:26:42 GMT -5
Catherine Howard I feel was one of the most wronged and tragic wives of Henry VIII. In all intense purposes, she was abused basically by her family the Dowager Duchess Of Norfolk, Henry Manox, and Francis Dereham which started when she was 13. She didn't know anything about court life and how to behave there and as Vanessa said was forced to marry Henry when she was 17 which she never wanted but had to do for her family's sake obviously.
Servants were sleazy to Catherine and she felt alone when Henry gambled or drank away so when Thomas Culpepper paid her attention, of course, something happened especially when he was nearer her age and they had a connection then.
A lot of people have said though despite all that they think Catherine instigated what happened with Henry Manox firstly and when married to Henry VIII liked the power she had despite not wanting to be there originally.
Her downfall was a shame actually un helped by Lady Rochford's meddling and folks not wanting her to be queen.
This song from the musical Six gives a good description on Catherine's life I think.
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Post by ladyfiaran22 on Feb 27, 2022 15:22:52 GMT -5
Thanks for the video, Katherine. What happened to Catherine Howard was tragic, the Dowager Duchess neglected the girls under her care and Catherine probably instigated the affair with Manox because she wanted attention from a man and didn’t realize it was inappropriate. Then while she’s the Queen, her husband is older, ugly and has ulcers on his legs and everyone around her treated her like she was an idiot and didn’t take her seriously. It’s understandable if she had an affair with Culpepper, he was her age and handsome compared to Henry. All this could have been avoided if the Howards didn’t force her to marry Henry
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Post by Tim on Feb 27, 2022 19:24:06 GMT -5
An unfortunate event that happened often back then. No such thing as MeToo in those days.
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Post by ladyfiaran22 on Feb 27, 2022 19:30:39 GMT -5
An unfortunate event that happened often back then. No such thing as MeToo in those days. Not really MeToo but the idea that women were chattel and pawns in dynastic marriages. The Howards wanted one of their women on the throne to manipulate Henry, they tried before with Anne Boleyn but she was too outspoken and independent. They might have felt Catherine was more malleable and submissive, but being married to Henry at that point must have been depressing for a pretty teenage girl
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Post by Tim on Feb 28, 2022 0:16:46 GMT -5
It as horrible, to be forced to marry a man you didn't love. Sadly, that's how it was back then.
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Feb 28, 2022 5:07:52 GMT -5
Everything Vanessa said was true, unfortunately. One of the reasons why I'm glad I was never around in Tudor times then. Also, another reason why my mum likes Tudor architecture but not Henry VIII himself because of what happened with his wives obviously.
After Catherine Howard, I'd say the next most wronged wife for me was Catherine Of Aragon for the sheer fact she was married to Henry 24 years and had to step aside for someone younger even though her marriage was wrongly annulled and the fact she was never allowed to see her daughter Mary afterward of course.
It riles me how Henry had to have a son and heir just because his father said when Henry's daughter Elizabeth more than capably ruled England herself proving a woman could do a man's job just as well themselves.
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Post by ladyfiaran22 on Feb 28, 2022 7:41:32 GMT -5
I see Mary as a tragic figure, being Henry’s only child for so long and she grew up thinking she was going to inherit the throne. Being illegitimate and Catherine being tossed aside must have been a psychologically shattering blow to her sense of self, since she was close to Catherine and was raised as a princess.
That may be why she hated Protestants so much, she associated them with Anne Boleyn and the people who ruined her life and associated Catholicism with her mother, subconsciously she may have wanted to bring back the good times of her childhood. Unfortunately she went too far and alienated her subjects and only made things worse marrying Philip, by the time she died she was hated by her subjects
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Post by Tim on Feb 28, 2022 12:33:30 GMT -5
And then there was poor Anne Boleyn, who got her head chopped off for her troubles. And she haunts the Tower Of London to this day.
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Feb 28, 2022 14:51:42 GMT -5
They say she does Tim as well as Catherine Howard haunting the long corridor at Hampton Court with her screams from being dragged away by servants as she tried to talk to Henry after being found about her affair with Thomas Culpepper obviously.
I've always attainted Anne's miscarriages after having Elizabeth as being a medical condition she had like an inhospitable womb say as many women in those times either often lost babies from poor hygiene and surroundings or died afterward like Jane Seymour from childbed fever naturally.
The fact Henry blamed Anne for the miscarriages and how god obviously intended him not to have male heirs with her instead of finding out the actual problem was certainly unfounded although his physicians probably wouldn't have known the real reason with medical conditions so little known about back then.
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Post by Tim on Feb 28, 2022 18:03:38 GMT -5
Too bad Melinda Gordon isn't around to try and cross those two poor ladies over.
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Post by ladyfiaran22 on Feb 28, 2022 19:47:41 GMT -5
Or maybe Anne Boleyn was under such stress trying to bear a male heir that it caused her miscarriages, her position was very precarious since many people didn’t think her marriage to Henry was legitimate and she only bore him a daughter. Stress can be very bad for a pregnant woman and with the rudimentary obstetrics care in those days, a miscarriage would have been more common than today
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Post by Tim on Mar 1, 2022 0:33:37 GMT -5
Could be.
We'll never really know, of course.
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