Is there a shortage of strong female leads on TV?

[Melinda Halliwell]

Hopefully more female leads or reoccurring supporting characters come along future wise.

I have enjoyed seeing the good strong powerful women on TV at the moment at least.

[Tim]

And, of course, we now have a female Doctor.  Something some Who fans have wanted for nearly forty years now.

[Jean]

We do have some. But it all depends on writing. Sure we can have role model femalw characters but how long till they get the horrible writing and love interests and romance being a foundation of their characters. That's always my concern with The CW shows.


Luckily Kara on Supergirl has been single in S4, so I'm thrilled she gets more than a love story.

[Tim]

Yeah, Kara has been single since Mon-El left.

She doesn't need a man to be happy.

[Melinda Halliwell]

Yeah I do like it when female characters are written properly by writers who know them or done research if they don't.

As Jean said the worst thing that can happen with television women is that they have to be involved with someone, get depicted as Mary Sues, or always have to be in conflict whether that's personally or physically and not be balanced out generally which some people prefer.

[Katie]

May 28, 2019 3:14:42 GMT -5 Melinda Halliwell said:

Yeah I do like it when female characters are written properly by writers who know them or done research if they don't.

As Jean said the worst thing that can happen with television women is that they have to be involved with someone, get depicted as Mary Sues, or always have be in conflict whether that's personally or physically and not be balanced out generally which some people prefer.

That is so very true. It is the worst, and what makes me dislike a character. I'm looking at you Piper and Phoebe of S5-S8. 

I like a good balance, I just said something similar in a discussion brought up at the Cafe. That re-watching Charmed S1, I found that Prue and Andy's storyline didn't take the attention off Prue's storyline at work, her relationship with her sisters or the innocents needing to be saved. 

I don't know why, I begin to think the social media crowd again play a part, when they scream for more shipping and romance and wanting to see their beloved couple get together or have more plots. *sigh* 

[BettyNewbie]

When it comes to female characters and romance, I think there needs to be some nuance.

I don't like characters whose storylines revolve entirely around romance (and nothing else), and I can't stand storylines centered around romance drama (especially love triangles). It's just bad writing, and it makes for boring storytelling. Very few people in RL have no lives outside of romance, so characters written like that are not only dull, but also unrealistic and unrelatable.

However...

I do not subscribe to the "Strong Independent Woman Don't Need No Man" trope. I don't think the "stoic loner" archetype is universally empowering for either women or men, and I don't see how being in a healthy, equal relationship makes a character inherently "weaker." What's wrong with wanting to be loved or have someone to lean on for support?

Plus, it's hard not to notice that the "Strong Independent Woman Don't Need No Man" trope is almost ALWAYS used to shut down interracial relationships (especially those involving a black person), and it completely ignores the existence of F/F relationships. It's not "regressive" at all to want to see those kinds relationships on TV, especially when they're still very underrepresented.

[Tim]

Cassie Bishop, the lead character on The InBetween, has a strong support system.  She has the two men who raised her and she often confides in them when things get tough.

[Melinda Halliwell]

Xena and Gabrielle come to mind too when talking about strong female leads who were involved with people at some point but not all the time which didn't affect their daily saving people lives also. They had one another to confide in plus the hinted do they like one another thing didn't spoil their close friendship which I liked then.

[Tim]

Captain Janeway of Star Trek:  Voyager, was another.  She was a strong female lead, but she often confided in Chakotay and Tuvok for support in some matters.

[Katie]

Aug 17, 2019 3:30:02 GMT -5 Melinda Halliwell said:

Xena and Gabrielle come to mind too when talking about strong female leads who were involved with people at some point but not all the time which didn't affect their daily saving people lives also. They had one another to confide in plus the hinted do they like one another thing didn't spoil their close friendship which I liked then.

Yep and it was ALWAYS the most important. Too bad, some shows don't do that. 

I appreciated that they didn't FULLY confirm their relationship, and left it up to the audience to decide. 

[Tim]

Aug 17, 2019 23:57:38 GMT -5 Katie said:

I appreciated that they didn't FULLY confirm their relationship, and left it up to the audience to decide. 

And I lot of Fan Fictions came out of that.

[Dark Avenger]

Thinking about strong females on television. I know CW has a heap of female lead shows now, but none of them is anything we haven't seen before. All of them are either reboots or DC shows.

And they ordered a pilot on Kung Fu with a female lead, but it is of course based on something we've seen before with a male.

I'm still sad, we are yet to be a female lead driven show, where the show is something bringing something we haven't seen before on television and new. Not banking on success from the past.

I still think we are yet to move forward in Hollywood.

[BettyNewbie]

Feb 2, 2020 20:37:54 GMT -5 Dark Avenger said:

Thinking about strong females on television. I know CW has a heap of female lead shows now, but none of them is anything we haven't seen before. All of them are either reboots or DC shows.

And they ordered a pilot on Kung Fu with a female lead, but it is of course based on something we've seen before with a male.

I'm still sad, we are yet to be a female lead driven show, where the show is something bringing something we haven't seen before on television and new. Not banking on success from the past.

I still think we are yet to move forward in Hollywood.

As I said in the CW thread, what we're seeing is hand-me-down representation, aka. the idea that we can only get new things starring women if they're playing roles originally played by men (or POC playing roles originally played by white people). Here's some good articles about it:

When news first broke that there was going to be Ghostbusters reboot starring Kristen Wiig, Melissa McCarthy, Leslie Jones, and Kate McKinnon, the internet had a mixed reaction. Response ranged from downright misogynistic to jubilant, to circling back around and making fun of sexist reactions.

The issue is, while much of the criticism was sexist, a lot of it was merely disappointment at a childhood favorite getting remade — albeit in somewhat graphic sentiments.

On the one hand, it’s great that if we must rehash old movies we at least don’t do it in the manner a dog returns to its own vomit. A new Ghostbusters is pointless to remake without reimagining it. Further, acknowledging that women are egregiously underrepresented onscreen is a good thing. A study at San Diego State University found that to this day, only 12 percent of film protagonists are female. So casting them onscreen, where they can talk to each other and pass the laughably easy Bechdel Test — these are all good things. But. But. It’s harder to combat sexism when it’s mixed with legitimate nonsexist dismay, and most importantly, why can’t women star in their own original movie? Why does it have to be echoing a movie with impossible shoes to fill — regardless of gender?

www.inverse.com/article/6830-hollywood-s-diversity-means-hand-me-down-movies-for-women-and-black-actors

When the brilliant Dwayne McDuffie created Static, he was no doubt inspired by preexisting heroes such as Spider-Man— another creative template. Both Static and Spidey are unassuming, everyday guys who gain miraculous powers via science. They work tirelessly to defend their communities against evil, while dealing with school, friends, romantic relationships, bullies, and other challenges faced by young people. Yet despite their similarities, no one will ever confuse these two characters with one another, or accuse Static of only existing to please minorities. Why is that? It’s simple. Despite the influences surrounding his creation, Static remains an original character—one that inhabits his own unique space within the greater comic universe. He has his own skill set, rogues’ gallery, and personality quirks. More importantly is not defined by his race, but rather, his actions. People of all colors can relate to him on some level.

Sadly, original characters such as this are becoming increasingly rare, but not due to a lack of original IPs. There are countless Black artists and writers out there, talented individuals eager to see their ideas brought to life in the mainstream. Yet this seldom comes to pass. Characters of color are unable to come into their own because they are hidden in the shadows of those who came before.

Nowadays, a new Black superhero–for the most part–is only allowed to take center stage when he or she is wearing the hand-me-down clothes of a popular, well-established character. This is seen as progressive. However, that’s debatable. In the case of aspiring authors and writers, such choices can represent walls that prevent their work from receiving the proper exposure, or any for that matter. As a result, potentially award-winning ideas are born and die without making so much as a sound. This is not how an industry grows. It’s how an industry stagnates.

www.bleedingcool.com/2018/08/05/robert-b-warren-writes-on-black-representation-in-comics-hand-me-down-culture/

What’s insulting is the thought that we’re supposed to be happy with whatever representation we get, without understanding that what we crave and demand goes far beyond the simple presence of a person of color on screen. It’s about substance. It’s about the opportunity for an actor or actress of color to be able to stand on their own merit and not in the shadows of their white predecessor. It’s about the importance of highlighting original stories by and featuring talent of color — without presenting it through a white gaze.

Trust me, if you type in “black woman vampire slayer” or “black woman sci-fi avenger” in Google right now, you’ll be able to find numerous original narratives just screaming to jump off the shelves and onto the screen. Or, just ask any self-proclaimed black nerd on Twitter to give you some examples and you’d need to need a notebook to jot them all down. But too often, white Hollywood refuses to see black humanity if they don’t have role in it.

The frustrating part is that I love Buffy. A badass woman who takes down the underworld with some mean fight skills and a stake while also tackling high school exams? I am so here for it, forever and always. But creator Joss Whedon had seven whole seasons to embody intersectional feminism by adding an equally complex, badass, and long-lasting character of color but chose not to (Kendra played by Bianca Lawson was fantastic, but she was only in three episodes!). To use this reboot to try to right that wrong is just sloppy.

www.slashfilm.com/buffy-reboot-problems/