10 Years Ago, Arrow (Unintentionally) Launched the Arrowvers
Oct 27, 2022 17:47:20 GMT -5
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Post by Sunday on Oct 27, 2022 17:47:20 GMT -5
It was 10 years ago today, on Wednesday, Oct. 10, 2012, when The CW pulled back on its bowstring and let Arrow fly.
Nearly as soon as that series’ pilot was announced and a script synopsis leaked out, scrutinizing comic book fans had their concerns. After all, the synopsis referred to Starling City versus Star City; Oliver’s onetime flame went by Laurel Lance versus Dinah; and Ollie’s younger sister carried the nickname of “Speedy,” though Green Arrow’s eventual sidekick, in any incarnation, never was kin.
Prospective viewers were also invited to wonder if Arrow would deliver Nikita-style grittiness or adopt a lighter, comic book-style feel a la Smallville? Addressing that question, then -Warner Bros. TV chief Peter Roth told TVLine in March 2012, “Tonally, the show probably lives most closely – in terms of analogy – to the world of Jason Bourne.”
And he was right.
The funny thing is that while some might mark today as the anniversary of the larger Arrowverse’s launch, that building of a multiple-show narrative was not at all in the cards when Arrow‘s flight began….
Back in August 2019 — ahead of the TV season that would give us the “Crisis on Infinite Earths” crossover event (and in doing so pave the way for Arrow‘s end) — TVLine invited Marc Guggenheim to reflect on the OG series’ humble intentions.
“Honestly, the whole object of Arrow was, ‘Don’t screw it up,'” said Guggenheim, an original executive producer on Arrow who’d go on to help oversee the larger Arrowverse. “Remember, we had just come off the the Green Lantern experience” — as in the tepidly received 2011 feature film for which Guggenheim and Berlanti co-wrote the screenplay — “so our mantra was, ‘Don’t screw this up.’ And that’s all we really cared about.”
They did not screw it up. Rather, Arrow was met with critical raves and its debut delivered 4 million total viewers and a 1.3 demo rating — marking at the time The CW’s most watched episode of anything in three years and its highest-rated drama bow since Nikita in 2010.
It was perhaps in that instant that the Arrowverse was born, at least in someone’s mind.
“Looking back on it, when we realized that the show was hit and the audience wasn’t going away, I think that’s when Greg [Berlanti] started to develop thoughts of not creating a universe, but expanding the show beyond Arrow into another superhero show,” said Guggenheim.
'WE WANT TO BUILD THE JUSTICE LEAGUE ON TV'
Arrow Barry Scientist Planted
Photo : The CW
“We were a hit,” Arrow lead Stephen Amell recalled during an August 2019 TVLine sitdown. “To put it simply — though it probably didn’t exactly happen this way — DC came to Greg Berlanti and said, ‘Take Barry Allen for a spin,’ and they said, ‘OK!'”
After all, “Green Arrow is not the biggest property,” Amell himself had to acknowledge. “I mean, I get super pissed off when I see Justice League shirts and he’s not featured. Like, ‘Really? Come on, guys!” But their original plan was to do a superhero show, no superpowers, grounded. But then you get to use The Flash and it’s like, ‘Well! Plans have changed.'”
In July 2013, nine months after Arrow‘s highly successful debut, it was announced that a standalone series about The Flash would be launched out of Amell’s series, with Glee grad Grant Gustin originating the speedster role in a Season 2 Arrow episode.
As Amell recalled, “They sat me down in Greg’s office between Season 1 and Season 2 and were like, ‘We want to build the Justice League on TV. Please help us do that.’ I said, ‘Yeah, man, whatever. Let’s do it!'”
Not that Amell was in any place to question the deviation from the grounded, powerless superhero plan.
“You have to remember my place in the pecking order in 2013…,” Amell told us with a chuckle. “Like, sure, I’m the guy that plays Oliver Queen, but I also would have paid Warner Bros. to give me this job. They could have told me that they’re changing the name of the show to Beige Arrow and I would have worn a garbage bag as a suit and I would have gone, ‘Whatever you say, Mr. Berlanti!'”
One could argue that it wasn’t until The Flash‘s own pilot closed with a future newspaper headline teasing a frightful “Crisis,” that one might suspect an Arrowverse stocked with other name heroes was being born.
Though at the time, said headline was written just for fun.
“That was an Easter egg, purely just an Easter egg,” Guggenheim made clear during our 2019 interview about that TV season’s upcoming ‘Crisis on Infinite Earths’ crossover event. In fact, “If you had asked us, even up to a year ago, ‘Will DC let you do Crisis on Infinite Earths?,’ we would have said no.”
Explaining the larger Easter egg-planting philosophy, Guggenheim said, “Usually they are our substitute for doing the actual thing.” To cite an example from Arrow, “We were in Coast City and you see a flight jacket with the name JORDAN on it,” as in Green Lantern Hal Jordan. “We were like, ‘We have to do that if we’re in Coast City'” — even without a green light from DC.
“There have been a couple of instances over the years where I have discovered it is easier to beg for forgiveness than to ask for permission…,” Guggenheim shared with a smile. “The flight jacket was definitely one of them!”
The Flash launched in October 2014, and a year later, Supergirl would make its debut (on CBS). Come January 2016, DC’s Legends of Tomorrow would make its bow, teaming up Caity Lotz’s resurrected Sara Lance (now White Canary) with other supporting Arrow and Flash characters, while also introducing the likes of Rip Hunter and Hawkman and Hawkgirl.
“The CW wanted another show,” Guggenheim recalled, “and everyone was looking around and going, ‘Wow, we’ve introduced enough superheroes and supervillains that we could really field a superhero team.’
“We’re always very excited about the idea of doing things that have never been done before, or at least that we’ve never done before,” the EP explained. “No one had done a [live-action] superhero ensemble on television, and that’s what made Legends exciting.”
With the arrival of Legends and then Supergirl‘s move to The CW for Season 2, the stage was set for annual crossover events that were a dickens to plan/schedule/shoot, but often were a delight to experience, as characters from multiple shows teamed up against aliens or Nazi-like doppelgängers from another Earth… or simply dealt with the nightmare visual of a bearded Oliver Queen wearing Flash’s cowl and spandex.
“The crossovers help you build out the universe,” Guggenheim noted. “They cease being individual shows and become chapters in a much larger, longer narrative.”
Said crossovers would go on to fold in characters from Black Lightning (which premiered in January 2018 but didn’t formally join the Arrowverse right away) and Batwoman (which debuted in October 2019), while the likes of DC’s Stargirl, Superman & Lois, Titans and Doom Patrol have lived on the periphery of/other Earths within the larger DC TV universe.
Ahead of Arrow‘s 10-year anniversary, TVLine bumped into a trio of Arrowverse vets at, fittingly, a gala honoring Greg Berlanti’s mother (and benefitting F**k Cancer).
Invited to reflect on the superhero slate’s legacy and his role in it, David Ramsey — who played Arrow‘s Diggle, went on to direct and guest-star in multiple DC superhero shows, and now has Justice U in development — avowed, “It’s a once in a lifetime kind of thing,” noting, “It’s spawned so many shows, it’s bought so many houses for so many people, so much tuition for so many kids…. But really, it was Greg’s brainchild. [These shows] came out of his heart, and we’re just lucky to be a part of it. There are so few people in this business, really, who are people of their word, and Greg Berlanti has been an individual of his word, and that is worth its wait in gold.”
The Flash Season 1The Flash’s leading lady, Candice Patton, remarked to TVLine that “we were babies!” when Arrow‘s first spinoff got up and running. “It’s almost a decade of my life that I’ve been a part of this world, and so few actors get to be on a long-standing show — and part of a universe as iconic as the Arrowverse.
“And for me as a Black actress to have been such an integral part of this universe and to kind of ‘move that needle’ for women of color, especially in the superhero genre, I am incredibly grateful,” Patton added. “Pick up a comic book now and you see [Iris as being Black]. And we’ve seen all the changes that have happened this past year, like Halle Bailey [as The Little Mermaid‘s Ariel]. Kids are seeing themselves in spaces they’ve never seen themselves before, and it makes me so proud that I got to be a part of that in even the smallest way.”
Azie Tesfai, who joined Supergirl in Season 4 as James Olsen’s sister Kelly, told us she “felt lucky because I came in and there were people who could help guide me a little bit.
“You’re never prepared when you join a comic show, and the fandom is really intense,” she explained. “But it was great, and we had like a family in Vancouver. We’re all up there together, and all the shows really do hang out and connect.”
David Ramsey then jumped in to note a ‘first” for the Arrowverse that Tesfai pulled off. “In those 10 years, there had never been an actor or an actress that has written an episode of television for one of the shows in the Arrowverse — and you’re looking at Azie who did that, and I had the privilege of directing that episode.” (With reporting by Lauren Piester)
Nearly as soon as that series’ pilot was announced and a script synopsis leaked out, scrutinizing comic book fans had their concerns. After all, the synopsis referred to Starling City versus Star City; Oliver’s onetime flame went by Laurel Lance versus Dinah; and Ollie’s younger sister carried the nickname of “Speedy,” though Green Arrow’s eventual sidekick, in any incarnation, never was kin.
Prospective viewers were also invited to wonder if Arrow would deliver Nikita-style grittiness or adopt a lighter, comic book-style feel a la Smallville? Addressing that question, then -Warner Bros. TV chief Peter Roth told TVLine in March 2012, “Tonally, the show probably lives most closely – in terms of analogy – to the world of Jason Bourne.”
And he was right.
The funny thing is that while some might mark today as the anniversary of the larger Arrowverse’s launch, that building of a multiple-show narrative was not at all in the cards when Arrow‘s flight began….
Back in August 2019 — ahead of the TV season that would give us the “Crisis on Infinite Earths” crossover event (and in doing so pave the way for Arrow‘s end) — TVLine invited Marc Guggenheim to reflect on the OG series’ humble intentions.
“Honestly, the whole object of Arrow was, ‘Don’t screw it up,'” said Guggenheim, an original executive producer on Arrow who’d go on to help oversee the larger Arrowverse. “Remember, we had just come off the the Green Lantern experience” — as in the tepidly received 2011 feature film for which Guggenheim and Berlanti co-wrote the screenplay — “so our mantra was, ‘Don’t screw this up.’ And that’s all we really cared about.”
They did not screw it up. Rather, Arrow was met with critical raves and its debut delivered 4 million total viewers and a 1.3 demo rating — marking at the time The CW’s most watched episode of anything in three years and its highest-rated drama bow since Nikita in 2010.
It was perhaps in that instant that the Arrowverse was born, at least in someone’s mind.
“Looking back on it, when we realized that the show was hit and the audience wasn’t going away, I think that’s when Greg [Berlanti] started to develop thoughts of not creating a universe, but expanding the show beyond Arrow into another superhero show,” said Guggenheim.
'WE WANT TO BUILD THE JUSTICE LEAGUE ON TV'
Arrow Barry Scientist Planted
Photo : The CW
“We were a hit,” Arrow lead Stephen Amell recalled during an August 2019 TVLine sitdown. “To put it simply — though it probably didn’t exactly happen this way — DC came to Greg Berlanti and said, ‘Take Barry Allen for a spin,’ and they said, ‘OK!'”
After all, “Green Arrow is not the biggest property,” Amell himself had to acknowledge. “I mean, I get super pissed off when I see Justice League shirts and he’s not featured. Like, ‘Really? Come on, guys!” But their original plan was to do a superhero show, no superpowers, grounded. But then you get to use The Flash and it’s like, ‘Well! Plans have changed.'”
In July 2013, nine months after Arrow‘s highly successful debut, it was announced that a standalone series about The Flash would be launched out of Amell’s series, with Glee grad Grant Gustin originating the speedster role in a Season 2 Arrow episode.
As Amell recalled, “They sat me down in Greg’s office between Season 1 and Season 2 and were like, ‘We want to build the Justice League on TV. Please help us do that.’ I said, ‘Yeah, man, whatever. Let’s do it!'”
Not that Amell was in any place to question the deviation from the grounded, powerless superhero plan.
“You have to remember my place in the pecking order in 2013…,” Amell told us with a chuckle. “Like, sure, I’m the guy that plays Oliver Queen, but I also would have paid Warner Bros. to give me this job. They could have told me that they’re changing the name of the show to Beige Arrow and I would have worn a garbage bag as a suit and I would have gone, ‘Whatever you say, Mr. Berlanti!'”
One could argue that it wasn’t until The Flash‘s own pilot closed with a future newspaper headline teasing a frightful “Crisis,” that one might suspect an Arrowverse stocked with other name heroes was being born.
Though at the time, said headline was written just for fun.
“That was an Easter egg, purely just an Easter egg,” Guggenheim made clear during our 2019 interview about that TV season’s upcoming ‘Crisis on Infinite Earths’ crossover event. In fact, “If you had asked us, even up to a year ago, ‘Will DC let you do Crisis on Infinite Earths?,’ we would have said no.”
Explaining the larger Easter egg-planting philosophy, Guggenheim said, “Usually they are our substitute for doing the actual thing.” To cite an example from Arrow, “We were in Coast City and you see a flight jacket with the name JORDAN on it,” as in Green Lantern Hal Jordan. “We were like, ‘We have to do that if we’re in Coast City'” — even without a green light from DC.
“There have been a couple of instances over the years where I have discovered it is easier to beg for forgiveness than to ask for permission…,” Guggenheim shared with a smile. “The flight jacket was definitely one of them!”
The Flash launched in October 2014, and a year later, Supergirl would make its debut (on CBS). Come January 2016, DC’s Legends of Tomorrow would make its bow, teaming up Caity Lotz’s resurrected Sara Lance (now White Canary) with other supporting Arrow and Flash characters, while also introducing the likes of Rip Hunter and Hawkman and Hawkgirl.
“The CW wanted another show,” Guggenheim recalled, “and everyone was looking around and going, ‘Wow, we’ve introduced enough superheroes and supervillains that we could really field a superhero team.’
“We’re always very excited about the idea of doing things that have never been done before, or at least that we’ve never done before,” the EP explained. “No one had done a [live-action] superhero ensemble on television, and that’s what made Legends exciting.”
With the arrival of Legends and then Supergirl‘s move to The CW for Season 2, the stage was set for annual crossover events that were a dickens to plan/schedule/shoot, but often were a delight to experience, as characters from multiple shows teamed up against aliens or Nazi-like doppelgängers from another Earth… or simply dealt with the nightmare visual of a bearded Oliver Queen wearing Flash’s cowl and spandex.
“The crossovers help you build out the universe,” Guggenheim noted. “They cease being individual shows and become chapters in a much larger, longer narrative.”
Said crossovers would go on to fold in characters from Black Lightning (which premiered in January 2018 but didn’t formally join the Arrowverse right away) and Batwoman (which debuted in October 2019), while the likes of DC’s Stargirl, Superman & Lois, Titans and Doom Patrol have lived on the periphery of/other Earths within the larger DC TV universe.
Ahead of Arrow‘s 10-year anniversary, TVLine bumped into a trio of Arrowverse vets at, fittingly, a gala honoring Greg Berlanti’s mother (and benefitting F**k Cancer).
Invited to reflect on the superhero slate’s legacy and his role in it, David Ramsey — who played Arrow‘s Diggle, went on to direct and guest-star in multiple DC superhero shows, and now has Justice U in development — avowed, “It’s a once in a lifetime kind of thing,” noting, “It’s spawned so many shows, it’s bought so many houses for so many people, so much tuition for so many kids…. But really, it was Greg’s brainchild. [These shows] came out of his heart, and we’re just lucky to be a part of it. There are so few people in this business, really, who are people of their word, and Greg Berlanti has been an individual of his word, and that is worth its wait in gold.”
The Flash Season 1The Flash’s leading lady, Candice Patton, remarked to TVLine that “we were babies!” when Arrow‘s first spinoff got up and running. “It’s almost a decade of my life that I’ve been a part of this world, and so few actors get to be on a long-standing show — and part of a universe as iconic as the Arrowverse.
“And for me as a Black actress to have been such an integral part of this universe and to kind of ‘move that needle’ for women of color, especially in the superhero genre, I am incredibly grateful,” Patton added. “Pick up a comic book now and you see [Iris as being Black]. And we’ve seen all the changes that have happened this past year, like Halle Bailey [as The Little Mermaid‘s Ariel]. Kids are seeing themselves in spaces they’ve never seen themselves before, and it makes me so proud that I got to be a part of that in even the smallest way.”
Azie Tesfai, who joined Supergirl in Season 4 as James Olsen’s sister Kelly, told us she “felt lucky because I came in and there were people who could help guide me a little bit.
“You’re never prepared when you join a comic show, and the fandom is really intense,” she explained. “But it was great, and we had like a family in Vancouver. We’re all up there together, and all the shows really do hang out and connect.”
David Ramsey then jumped in to note a ‘first” for the Arrowverse that Tesfai pulled off. “In those 10 years, there had never been an actor or an actress that has written an episode of television for one of the shows in the Arrowverse — and you’re looking at Azie who did that, and I had the privilege of directing that episode.” (With reporting by Lauren Piester)
