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Post by BettyNewbie on Apr 11, 2017 13:58:41 GMT -5
Another possible clue is the fact that Apricorn Balls suddenly became available again in SM after years of being unavailable outside of GSC/HGSS. Why suddenly bring back Apricorn Balls after all of these years, especially when the Devon Corporation balls that were introduced in Gen 3 serve almost the exact same function while being less explicitly tied to a particular region? Answer, the next games are taking us back to Kanto and Johto, and GF wants to avoid another DPP/HGSS scenario where Kanto/Johto Pokémon caught in Apricorn Balls appear in plain Poké Balls when traded to the generation's other games. Malie City could also possibly be GF's way of testing out graphical and architectural designs for future games set in Johto. Depending on how far back these hypothetical sequels were being planned, Santalune Forest in XY may have also been a test run for a 3D Viridian Forest. Ho-Oh also seems to be getting an unusual amount of attention this gen. Not only is it the star of the upcoming movie, but it also appeared on the cover of a TCG set alongside Necrozma. And, what was the working title for SM? Oh yeah, Pokémon RAINBOW. Who is the RAINBOW Pokémon? The names "Sun and Moon" also recall the "Day vs Night" dichotomy, and what were the very first games to introduce the concept of day/night in Pokémon? As well as day/night counterparts with certain Pokémon? Arguably, even the mascots themselves, going off the title screens for both GSC and HGSS: If it means anything, Solgaleo and Lunaala also happen to be the first Psychic Box Legendaries since Lugia, and unless you count the Ultra Beasts as Legendaries, SM are also the first games since GS to not introduce any new Dragon type Legendaries. Remember how Xerneas and Yveltal were the first non-Dragon Box Legendaries since Groudon and Kyogre? And, how Zygarde was a green snake Dragon Third Mascot like Rayquaza? And, what were the next games after XY? Heck, even the original RS themselves were a possible clue towards FRLG, being another Red/Blue pair of games. Possibly even Platinum in regards to HGSS, since it was the first precious metal title since GS. GF *does* hide remake/sequel clues in game titles and even Box Legendaries. The lack of a VC re-release for GSC also seems suspicious, especially with RBY having come out. There are exactly three more unused Game Boy icons hidden in SM's data, which would obviously point towards transfers from GSC. So, why re-release RBY right away, yet hold back on re-releasing GSC? Answer, GF wants to re-release GSC alongside the new sequels. Remember that "Kanto sequels" would actually be sequels to GSC and not RBY, as GSC themselves were RBY's sequels. There's also the simple fact that there's a decent chance that the next Gen 7 game will actually be on the Switch, which would be a significant graphical and mechanical upgrade over any other system the main series has been on (since the Switch is a handheld with console-level specs). What better way for Pokémon to make this huge leap than with the two regions that started it all, Kanto and Johto? The success of Pokémon GO has also drummed up a lot of new interest in the older gens, so that's a *huge* potential audience for a new Kanto/Johto game. But, Sinnoh? Those games are still in the "grey area" where they're too old to be relevant, yet not old enough to be nostalgic. The audience just isn't there yet for DP remakes. Yes, DP seem "popular" online, but online popularity doesn't necessarily translate into RL popularity. Though one thing I do not get, so they don't want to show new designs of Brock and Misty in the movie? Why? Re-designs don't give anything away, and if it did, then why couldn't they just use the older designs but with fresh animation? Likely because Misty and Brock are aged up, just like Red and Blue. Seeing older versions of them would be a huge reveal, much more than a simple redesign. I read that one person pointed out that the only older characters we saw in the trailer were all anime-exclusives -- Jessie/James and Nurse Joy. Even Ash can now be argued to be an anime-exclusive mascot character rather than a true anime counterpart to Red. The two only looked alike in Gens 1 and 2: As early as Gen 3, the two already had radically different designs: And, notice that AG was when they started sending Ash into non-Kanto/Johto regions and more explicitly using him as a substitute for the games' male protagonists. Gotta keep that yellow rat around for marketing purposes. Then, we get to Gen 7, and Red is a (rather hunky) young man while Ash is still the same dumbass 10 year old he's been for 20 years and counting: Thus, it's probably not a stretch to say that this new movie is taking place at the time of Kanto/Johto sequels rather than during the same time as the original Kanto anime. Thus, Misty and Brock are older and not traveling with Ash, and Gary isn't his rival either for the same reasons. If they can get away with keeping Ash as the same stupid 10 year old mascot protagonist for 20 straight years, then they can get away with letting his old friends age while he still remains the same.
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Post by adzpower on Apr 12, 2017 16:26:09 GMT -5
Haha, Red is definitely the strong but silent type!
Your research seems sound Betty, I can't see a fault anywhere, you're right, GF are pretty notorious for hiding secrets in games, or hinting at what might come in the future. I for one have no problem in saying that a sequel to Kanto/Johto might well end up being my favorite Pokemon games of all time IF they get it right, because as we've seen with things like ORAS, they can get it so wrong.
Now to get saving up for a Switch! I was adamant I wasn't going to get one, but I couldn't possibly pass up the chance to play a game like this, time will tell I suppose.
Seeing Red and Blue grown up was fantastic to see in S/M, so to see all the other characters like Misty would be a dream come true. Honestly, the more I think about it, I could care less about this movie, my main focus has always been the games, and since the movies almost never tie into the anime, its never been a big issue for me to ignore them. Though I do really like the first 5 or 6.
I do worry for dear old Prof Oak though, is he even still alive? Will we find him in a Kanto retirement home? Haha, I can't wait to find out!
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Post by BettyNewbie on Apr 12, 2017 18:09:28 GMT -5
Another thing I realized is that Solgaleo and Lunala are likely the first mascots since Ho-Oh and Lugia to not be part of a trio. A lot of people have been calling Necrozma the "third mascot," but it doesn't really fit in with Solgaleo and Lunala thematically or design-wise. In fact, it isn't even next to them in the Pokédex, instead being between Guzzlord and Magearna. It's likely just a standalone Legendary rather than the third member of a trio. (Which would actually echo the Kanto/Johto mascot Legendaries -- Ho-Oh/Lugia as the duo and Mewtwo as the standalone. Funny how all roads in Alola seem to be leading back to Kanto/Johto. ) The lack of a Mascot Trio in Gen 7 has HUGE implications for where the games will go after SM. Remember why we started getting Mascot Trios in the first place -- they gave GF an excuse to release updated rehashes of the initial games, ala. Emerald and Platinum. Even B2W2 were basically just a third version dressed up as sequels, especially if you believe the rumors that they were originally planned as a standalone Grey Version. The fact that GF didn't end up doing anything with Zygarde in Gen 6 indicates that even they've realized how stale and overdone the Mascot Trio formula has become. There's just nothing that could be done with a third version anymore without feeling like a tired rehash. This really lowers the odds of Alola being revisited in an Emerald/Platinum/B2W2 style game, which means that either the "Stars" rumors are fake, or people are misreading them to mean a standard third version when they're actually something else. It certainly wouldn't be the first time GF pulled the rug out from under people and played with the fandom's expectations. Remember when everyone was *so* sure that we were getting either Z or X2Y2 after ORAS, and we instead got RBY on the VC and Gen 7? Now, everyone is *so* sure that we're getting either an Alola third version or DP remakes. Since when has the most obvious answer ever been the right one? Your research seems sound Betty, I can't see a fault anywhere, you're right, GF are pretty notorious for hiding secrets in games, or hinting at what might come in the future. I for one have no problem in saying that a sequel to Kanto/Johto might well end up being my favorite Pokemon games of all time IF they get it right, because as we've seen with things like ORAS, they can get it so wrong. I feel the same way myself. My favorite Pokémon games are still the original sequels, GSC, so the idea of a new Kanto/Johto revisit has me interested. That being said, I don't entirely trust Ohmori to do these regions justice after what happened with ORAS, but you never know until you try. Now to get saving up for a Switch! I was adamant I wasn't going to get one, but I couldn't possibly pass up the chance to play a game like this, time will tell I suppose. That's another thing to keep in mind, too. Nintendo REALLY wants the Switch to be a success after the Wii U was a total failure, and an easy way to do it is to get a main series Pokémon game out for the system. What do you think would sell more Switches, new games featuring the classic regions everyone knows and loves (Kanto and Johto) or remakes of a less popular later region that hasn't been relevant since 2010 (Sinnoh)? Seeing Red and Blue grown up was fantastic to see in S/M, so to see all the other characters like Misty would be a dream come true. Honestly, the more I think about it, I could care less about this movie, my main focus has always been the games, and since the movies almost never tie into the anime, its never been a big issue for me to ignore them. Though I do really like the first 5 or 6. I do worry for dear old Prof Oak though, is he even still alive? Will we find him in a Kanto retirement home? Haha, I can't wait to find out! Well, Samson Oak's still around, and I assume he's around the same age, so there's hope for Prof. Oak. He's probably retired, though, and Blue's running the lab nowadays. It's no surprise if you only like the first 5 movies, aka. the OS era ones. Starting with AG, the movies became A LOT more centered around marketing the latest Event Legendary and became aggressively generic and formulaic as a result. In fact, this could really be said for much of the anime in general after Johto. While the show's always been an advertisement for the games to an extent, it really wasn't until AG that it started to become blatant. That's literally the only reason why Ash's story even continued beyond Johto when there was zero reason for it to. The Powers That Be needed to keep that yellow rat around forever and ever, because Marketing.
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Post by adzpower on Apr 13, 2017 16:24:50 GMT -5
It's all very interesting, honestly they could go in so many ways but everything seems to indicate some kind of Kanto sequel, though I wouldn't put it past GF to massively troll the lot of us and do something that no-one saw coming!
*This just in, what you ALL wanted, a remake of Pokemon Colosseum for the Wii U!*
And you're right, I said this to people about the Wii U as well, it didn't have a strong enough game line-up, by the time games started coming out for it that people actually wanted it was already 2-3 years old. But launching a brand new Pokemon game on it? I would assume almost instant success. They did it right with the Switch though, I don't play it but I heard a supposedly fantastic new Zelda game was launched with the Switch, at least ensuring some initial success.
Perhaps this and a few other titles will sustain its sales until the launch of the new Pokemon games? I think so.
Thinking about how the characters might look now is fascinating for me, I can't wait to see not just Brock and Mist, but Erica, Blaine, Sabrina, even good old youngster Joey! (Oldster Joey now?)
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Post by BettyNewbie on Apr 13, 2017 18:18:21 GMT -5
It's all very interesting, honestly they could go in so many ways but everything seems to indicate some kind of Kanto sequel, though I wouldn't put it past GF to massively troll the lot of us and do something that no-one saw coming! *This just in, what you ALL wanted, a remake of Pokemon Colosseum for the Wii U!* And you're right, I said this to people about the Wii U as well, it didn't have a strong enough game line-up, by the time games started coming out for it that people actually wanted it was already 2-3 years old. But launching a brand new Pokemon game on it? I would assume almost instant success. They did it right with the Switch though, I don't play it but I heard a supposedly fantastic new Zelda game was launched with the Switch, at least ensuring some initial success. Perhaps this and a few other titles will sustain its sales until the launch of the new Pokemon games? I think so. I think the failure of Battle Revolution back in 2007 killed the odds of Pokémon getting any console releases in the late Wii and Wii U eras. On top of that, the main games themselves becoming 3D starting in XY further lessened the need for another Stadium or Colosseum/XD type game. Nintendo made a wise move in going with a hybrid console/handheld with the Switch. They realized that they were never going to compete with Sony and Microsoft in the home console market and that handhelds were where their bread was buttered. To put it in perspective, every Nintendo console released since the N64 (with the exception of the Wii) has a been an underselling flop, and all were outsold by their generation's respective handheld: N64 Sales: 32.92 million GB/C Sales: 118 million GameCube Sales: 21.74 million GBA Sales: 81.5 million Wii Sales: 101.59 million DS Sales: 107.75 million Wii U Sales: 13.56 million 3DS Sales: 65.30 million Only the Wii even came close to the sales of its generation's handheld, and it still lost. After the debacle that was the Wii U, it made no sense to try to continue with a separate line of home consoles. Thinking about how the characters might look now is fascinating for me, I can't wait to see not just Brock and Mist, but Erica, Blaine, Sabrina, even good old youngster Joey! (Oldster Joey now?) Am I the only person who never got the appeal of Joey? Like I did in my sequel idea, I want the games to nod to Misty and Brock's anime counterparts and have them fulfill their lifelong dreams instead of continuing to be stuck inside gyms. Let Brock have the Day Care Center he's always wanted, while Misty can be a powerful E4 Member and master of Water types. That would almost be better than them traveling around with Ash again in the 20th movie, as neither of them ever truly got to fulfill their goals on the show. Misty got kicked back to the gym without closure, while Brock stagnated in AG/DP and became a hollow shell of his former self. Having their game counterparts fulfill those dreams would be a respectful nod.
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Post by adzpower on Apr 16, 2017 9:31:06 GMT -5
Very true, it would be respectful, which is exactly why GF won't do it. Because I'm betting the large amount of casual schmucks who will buy this game will be buying it primarily to get the exact same experience they had back in the 90's but with better graphics. They want Brock to still be the gym leader, they want Professor Oak right at the beginning, they want your rival as champion and I bet they want Team Rocket back as the baddies.
I can already imagine the hashtags.
#WhereTeamRocketDoe? #NoBrockNoBoulderBadge #WhereDaPikachus?! #FakePokemonNews
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Post by BettyNewbie on Apr 16, 2017 12:24:32 GMT -5
Very true, it would be respectful, which is exactly why GF won't do it. Because I'm betting the large amount of casual schmucks who will buy this game will be buying it primarily to get the exact same experience they had back in the 90's but with better graphics. They want Brock to still be the gym leader, they want Professor Oak right at the beginning, they want your rival as champion and I bet they want Team Rocket back as the baddies. I can already imagine the hashtags. #WhereTeamRocketDoe? #NoBrockNoBoulderBadge #WhereDaPikachus?! #FakePokemonNews Basically, what those people want is another RBY remake rather than sequels. Loathe am I to admit it, I could see GF trying to do it. FRLG are now as old and as outdated as RSE are, and those games just got remade last gen. Plus, FRLG had the unfortunate timing of coming out back during the middle of Gen 3 when the series' popularity was at an all-time low and older fans were still in the midst of their "Pokémon is for babies" phase. The many nostalgic older fans who came back into the series with Pokémon GO and Sun/Moon completely missed FRLG, as well as even HGSS, and I could see GF trying to put out new remakes of the first two gens that better capture this audience than FRLG and HGSS were able to. Notice how ORAS has sold more (13.68 million) than either FRLG (12 million) or HGSS (12.72 million), despite being both newer and remakes of a less popular generation. The reason? Pokémon is *far* more popular now than it was back in the mid-late 00s, especially among older fans. Far more older fans came back for ORAS than they did either FRLG or HGSS, and I can see GF thinking "If remakes of the less popular Hoenn games can generate this much interest among older fans, imagine what new Kanto or Johto remakes would do." Of course, you know how I feel about this. I'd rather we just have VC re-releases instead of remakes and GF give sequels a try instead. I feel the same way even with generations that haven't been previously remade like Gen 4. Platinum was already a very polished, complete game, and I don't see how remakes could improve Sinnoh further.
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Post by adzpower on Apr 17, 2017 16:18:55 GMT -5
It is a shame that they seem to be stuck in some kind of perpetual loop, where they want to please the fans they have but also earn new ones, its a difficult balance for a company to find. They need longevity so they know they need to earn younger fans, but they also don't want to lose the people who grew up with the franchise and who still play it. Honestly I loathe the game but Pokemon Go was a genius move, earned back a ton of older fans and scored them new ones by re-using the original 150 and marketing it for smartphones which these days almost every young person has!
They will definitely keep capitilizing on this renewed interest, Pokemon has never been in dire straits, but these days the nostalgia wave is high and people like to go surfing on it, I wouldn't be shocked if we get even more Kanto nostalgia in the next couple of years, culminating in some new games. Great for new fans, but for an older fan like me I have to admit, I'm getting fatigued.
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Post by BettyNewbie on Apr 17, 2017 17:02:25 GMT -5
It is a shame that they seem to be stuck in some kind of perpetual loop, where they want to please the fans they have but also earn new ones, its a difficult balance for a company to find. They need longevity so they know they need to earn younger fans, but they also don't want to lose the people who grew up with the franchise and who still play it. Honestly I loathe the game but Pokemon Go was a genius move, earned back a ton of older fans and scored them new ones by re-using the original 150 and marketing it for smartphones which these days almost every young person has! They will definitely keep capitilizing on this renewed interest, Pokemon has never been in dire straits, but these days the nostalgia wave is high and people like to go surfing on it, I wouldn't be shocked if we get even more Kanto nostalgia in the next couple of years, culminating in some new games. Great for new fans, but for an older fan like me I have to admit, I'm getting fatigued. This is why I wish GF would just go ahead and make a new Kanto game and get it over with. Loading up brand new games on cheap references and callbacks just doesn't work, IMO. Most nostalgic fans would rather see the actual region and its characters rather than just a few references, while most younger fans would rather let the new games be new games. XY were particularly bad about this. They overloaded themselves with RBY callbacks, yet didn't have a story or setting that connected to Kanto in a meaningful way. There wasn't even a single Kanto character cameo in the entire game. To me, that's just shallowly using nostalgia to hook older fans into what was otherwise another standalone reboot region. SM have done a tad better, actually including some meaningful connections to Kanto (protagonist moves to Alola from there, Lillie goes there at the end of the game) as well as actual character cameos (Red and Blue in the Battle Tree), but I'd still rather just see Kanto itself in a new game. (As well as Johto. Outside of those brief few months before HGSS came out, that region has *never* gotten its turn to shine.)
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Post by adzpower on Apr 18, 2017 15:35:20 GMT -5
I do wonder why they shun Johto so much. Because its the region next to Kanto most older fans remember, its when Pokemania was at an all time high, people adored those games, myself included, just seems strange that they don't give it its well deserved kudos.
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Post by BettyNewbie on Apr 20, 2017 12:37:38 GMT -5
All of this remake/sequel/reboot talk seems to be wearing people out, so I think it's time to change gears.
Do you have any shippings that you enjoy in Pokémon? It can be either the games or the anime. I really like Lance/Lorelei (both anime and games), and I also like Jessie/James (anime) and Misty/Tracey (anime).
I've never liked any of the ships that involved Ash. He's never been that interesting of a character, and the fact that he's shown himself to be a perpetual, never-growing 10 year old also makes it hard to justify shipping him with anyone.
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Post by adzpower on Apr 23, 2017 4:19:08 GMT -5
I watched the first Pokemon movie again last night, that scene where Ash turns to stone always gets me, stop crying Pikachu!
I have it in the back of my head that Professor Oak and Ash's mother have a thing for each other, but have never acted on it due to the considerable age difference. I also ship Red and Blue, they just fit together, Blue is talkative and bubbly who is compensated by the stoic and shy Red. A perfect pair imo.
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Post by BettyNewbie on Apr 23, 2017 10:07:49 GMT -5
I watched the first Pokemon movie again last night, that scene where Ash turns to stone always gets me, stop crying Pikachu! Cheesy as it is, that's movie's a total classic. I'd rather watch it over the so-called "20th anniversary movie" that's coming out this year, that's for sure. I have it in the back of my head that Professor Oak and Ash's mother have a thing for each other, but have never acted on it due to the considerable age difference. I also ship Red and Blue, they just fit together, Blue is talkative and bubbly who is compensated by the stoic and shy Red. A perfect pair imo. By "Blue" do you mean the rival or the female PC, because I never saw the rival as being "bubbly," LOL. I'm not into M/M pairings. I associate them way too much with fetishism and the erasure/hatred of female characters, even if not every M/M shipper acts like that. Plus, I just prefer to have female characters in my stories.
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Post by adzpower on Apr 23, 2017 10:56:28 GMT -5
I mean the original rival Blue from the original games, up unto now when we see them together in Sun and Moon. By bubbly I guess I just mean more talkative, brash. I don't see any problem with M/M of F/F myself, I think people can get bogged down by real world issues when its just a couple of fictional characters who in the eyes of the shipper at least, think they go well together. If Blue were a female I'd feel the same way.
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Post by BettyNewbie on Apr 23, 2017 12:27:36 GMT -5
I mean the original rival Blue from the original games, up unto now when we see them together in Sun and Moon. By bubbly I guess I just mean more talkative, brash. I don't see any problem with M/M of F/F myself, I think people can get bogged down by real world issues when its just a couple of fictional characters who in the eyes of the shipper at least, think they go well together. If Blue were a female I'd feel the same way. I should clarify that I'm not homophobic at all and have no issue with same sex couples. In fact, another pairing I like is Clair and Liza from the anime. I like the two of them together, and I prefer to headcanon Clair as being a repressed lesbian, anyways. Of course, that's F/F, and most of the issues I cited are more specific to M/M. M/M shippers are the ones who attack/erase/ignore female characters because they "get in the way of the bromance," and female characters already have it tough enough in Pokémon as it is. M/M fic also tends to be full of harmful, regressive "seme/uke" tropes, and don't even get me started on the scourge that is "mPreg." Yes, M/F has loads of these same problems, too, and they annoy me just as much. However, M/F shippers don't go around calling their problematic stuff "progressive" like M/M shippers do. (Again, not saying that you do any of these things, because you obviously don't. Really, it's much more female M/M shippers who do this crap. They want to lust after the hot guys without any woman "getting in the way." You see it in 95% of the fandoms on Tumblr, not just Pokémon.)
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