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Post by BettyNewbie on Jun 25, 2020 0:38:37 GMT -5
So Mike Judge came up with Daria, and then MTV just stole it right out from under him!? How'd that happen!? Didn't he have a copyright?
I'm guessing that MTV was the one who had ownership over the characters from Beavis & Butthead, so they felt that they could do whatever they wanted, regardless of Mike Judge's approval. But, I can't emphasize enough what a shitty move that was. B&B was literally MTV's biggest hit show at the time, and none of it would've ever happened without Mike Judge. The network owed him, if anything. And, it's not like he was against doing a Daria spinoff, either. It seems like he may have even planned out ideas for the show before MTV backstabbed him. What I think happened was that MTV's relationship with Judge fell apart around 1996 (likely when B&B's big screen outing, Do America, came out). They probably wanted more creative control over B&B than he was willing to give them, and while B&B stuck around for another year, Judge promptly dumped MTV for Fox with his next show (King of the Hill). Meanwhile, Daria got put into the hands of a Kernus-like yes-man (Glenn Eichler), and while the show still had a strong first two seasons (and okay third), that was 99.9% likely the product of other writers on the show rather than Eichler himself. And, if MTV/Eichler treated those writers as poorly as they treated the show's fans, then most of them were probably gone after S3, which... definitely explains the last two seasons.
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Daria
Jun 25, 2020 11:24:24 GMT -5
Post by Tim on Jun 25, 2020 11:24:24 GMT -5
And history repeated itself with Classic Charmed. Which, like Daria, was a 90's show that started strong but fell apart when the original creator was pushed out.
Those that fail to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.
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Daria
Jun 25, 2020 12:29:13 GMT -5
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Post by BettyNewbie on Jun 25, 2020 12:29:13 GMT -5
And history repeated itself with Classic Charmed. Which, like Daria, was a 90's show that started strong but fell apart when the original creator was pushed out.
Those that fail to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.
Daria is arguably an even worse example of this, as the "Connie" of the story (Mike Judge) was pushed out before the show even started. Just a tragic example of a show that got killed by a greedy network and an uncaring showrunner who had contempt for the show's own characters and fans. If you want to continue the Charmed analogy, going from S1-2 to S3 to S4-5 was basically like going from Charmed's S1-2 to S4 to S8. S3 was a noticeable drop from S1-2, and S4-5 were a massive drop from S3. While most shows usually seem to hit their shark-jumping point around S3-4, I can't think of many other shows that completely unraveled so horribly after S3 as Daria did. Even the shitshow that was PLL didn't really hit that point until S6.
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Post by Tim on Jun 25, 2020 18:00:40 GMT -5
Poor Daria never really had a chance, did she. She did manage to have a few good seasons, before the show got butchered. Yet, it's still terrible to see a show you love destroyed in the name of greed and indifference.
And I know you loved this show, Betty, because of your avatar and sig pic.
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Daria
Jun 25, 2020 20:00:17 GMT -5
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Post by BettyNewbie on Jun 25, 2020 20:00:17 GMT -5
Poor Daria never really had a chance, did she. She did manage to have a few good seasons, before the show got butchered. Yet, it's still terrible to see a show you love destroyed in the name of greed and indifference.
And I know you loved this show, Betty, because of your avatar and sig pic.
The first two seasons were very good, despite MTV's antics behind the scenes. Daria was probably one of the most realistic and relatable depictions of a teenage girl on TV (despite being a cartoon character), and the show's skewering of mundane suburbia was hilarious. S3 was a bit of a step down from S1-2, but was still mostly watchable. Up until the season finale, that is. That was the show's big Shark Jump moment, and it crashed hard. Daria was flanderized into a shell of her former self, while the Lane siblings got sidelined for the new Gary Stu in town (Tom). The show's earlier sense of humor gave way to love triangle drama and cold nihilism. There had to have been a massive writer shake-up between S3 and S4, because I can't think of any other reason why the show would go off a cliff so fast. As I said, Daria S4-5 are literally on the same level as Charmed S8 in awfulness.
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Post by Tim on Jun 25, 2020 23:31:18 GMT -5
It was good that they did a show about a teenage girl who was not the Prom Queen. You could say that she was a cool nerd a good ten years before Big Bang Theory came along.
Love triangles? Ugh! All those things do is ruin shows (yes, What I Like About You, I'm looking at you).
And you get writers that want to push their own characters, not the regulars. Someone should have said that the name of the show is Daria, not Tom.
That's probably want happened. Usually a show goes down the toilet when the original writers leave and new ones, who know nothing about the show or characters, come in.
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Daria
Jun 26, 2020 1:16:19 GMT -5
Post by BettyNewbie on Jun 26, 2020 1:16:19 GMT -5
It was good that they did a show about a teenage girl who was not the Prom Queen. You could say that she was a cool nerd a good ten years before Big Bang Theory came along. Daria, upon being compared to the stereotypical geek characters from Big Bang Theory... (Sorry, I know you love that show, but I had to do it, lol.) Daria seems especially striking compared to the teen TV protagonists that have come out since the show aired. The "teen" characters on today's TV shows are not only played by impossibly gorgeous 25 year olds, but also dress like them in pricey designer fashion. And, of course, the characters spend more time solving murder mysteries, texting, and having sex with each other than doing anything school-related. But, Daria and Jane could've easily been me and my best friend. They dressed and acted like normal teenagers. Daria crushed on Trent without feeling a need to immediately hop into bed with him. (And, Trent, while very hot, still wasn't the kind of bland Ken doll with a six-pack you usually see on CW shows. He was stick-thin, had bushy eyebrows, and was covered in tattoos and piercings. He dressed grungy and played in an indie rock band.) Love triangles? Ugh! All those things do is ruin shows (yes, What I Like About You, I'm looking at you).
And you get writers that want to push their own characters, not the regulars. Someone should have said that the name of the show is Daria, not Tom. Blame Glenn Eichler and his stupid, petty hatred of fans shipping Daria/Trent. Even though the first 2-3 seasons constantly teased a potential relationship between them and strongly indicated that Trent reciprocated Daria's crush, Eichler threw a fit and whined that Daria/Trent fans "weren't watching the show correctly" and that "Trent is a loser" (because character development apparently doesn't exist). He literally tore down the entire show and its main character just to stick it to a predominately underage group of fans. Tom literally reeks of being Eichler's own self-insert. Literally some Kernus-level bullshit, right there.
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Daria
Jun 26, 2020 3:21:59 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Melinda Halliwell on Jun 26, 2020 3:21:59 GMT -5
I wonder had Daria been a real person existing in the Big Bang Theory Universe what would Sheldon Cooper thought of her?
Would he compare her to Amy thinking her worse or better than her? And would Amy be jealous of Daria if Sheldon took notice?
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Daria
Jun 26, 2020 11:13:23 GMT -5
Post by Tim on Jun 26, 2020 11:13:23 GMT -5
Daria seems especially striking compared to the teen TV protagonists that have come out since the show aired. The "teen" characters on today's TV shows are not only played by impossibly gorgeous 25 year olds, but also dress like them in pricey designer fashion. And, of course, the characters spend more time solving murder mysteries, texting, and having sex with each other than doing anything school-related. Of course, labour laws are the reason that most teenagers are played by people in their 20's. However, since Daria was a cartoon, said laws did not apply here.
I guess this Glenn Eichler is the Kernus to Daria fans. Sounds like he destroyed that show in pretty much the same way.
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Post by BettyNewbie on Jun 26, 2020 12:37:04 GMT -5
Of course, labour laws are the reason that most teenagers are played by people in their 20's. However, since Daria was a cartoon, said laws did not apply here. Well, as I said, it's not just that TV teens are played by actors in their 20s, but that they also dress and act like people in their 20s. You constantly see TV teenage girls wearing skimpy designer clothing that wouldn't even be allowed in the majority of RL high schools due to dress codes. And, real teens don't have sex nearly as much as they do on TV. Even if it was a cartoon, Daria was a breath of fresh air from the tired old Pretty White Kids With Problems tropes. The reality of high school is awkward and tiring. It's either a mundane and ultimately forgettable period of your life or it's four years of misery. It's not the Greatest and Most Important Thing Ever (!!!) like so many teen shows portray. I guess this Glenn Eichler is the Kernus to Daria fans. Sounds like he destroyed that show in pretty much the same way. Pretty much. All of the good things from S1-3 clearly came from other writers rather than Eichler himself. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them might've even come from very early drafts Mike Judge made for the show before it was stolen from him. Eichler clearly didn't have much love for the main character herself, and he also seemed to hate the Lane siblings. The last two seasons went out of their way to tear them down in favor of propping up Eichler's Gary Stu. Tom replaced Trent as the male lead, while also tearing apart Daria and Jane's friendship with a pointless love triangle storyline. And, Daria was flanderized into a selfish, unlikable brat who was constantly insulted and berated by Tom (whom the audience was expected to side with). The overall tone of the show became very cruel, nihilistic, and unfunny in the last two seasons. I really wish S3 had been the last season.
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Post by ladyfiaran22 on Jun 26, 2020 13:42:34 GMT -5
I did read that Buzzfeed article and it was right on, which is why I never liked shows about high school. My high school life was boring, I went to school and did homework, I never went to any parties or even drank. Plus I couldn’t even go to parties if I wanted to, I had to go straight home to take care of my brother since Mom had to work and his lazy idiot father would be sitting on his fat ass and watching TV. I wore exclusively jeans and T-shirts because I was fat and they covered me up, I didn’t date anyone either or even go to my prom. I just couldn’t relate to teen shows, they were on another planet.
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Post by Tim on Jun 26, 2020 18:25:49 GMT -5
Betty:
I can relate to Daria in this case. I was a social outcast in high school much of the time (I didn't play sports, didn't go to parties, etc.), so I can see where she is coming from. Her wit is what helped her cope much of the time.
Vanessa:
That is what high school is like for most people. More Daria than Saved By The Bell or BH 90210.
Back to Betty:
And MTV didn't fire Eichler for ruining one of their best shows!? WTF??
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Post by BettyNewbie on Jun 26, 2020 19:40:28 GMT -5
I did read that Buzzfeed article and it was right on, which is why I never liked shows about high school. My high school life was boring, I went to school and did homework, I never went to any parties or even drank. Plus I couldn’t even go to parties if I wanted to, I had to go straight home to take care of my brother since Mom had to work and his lazy idiot father would be sitting on his fat ass and watching TV. I wore exclusively jeans and T-shirts because I was fat and they covered me up, I didn’t date anyone either or even go to my prom. I just couldn’t relate to teen shows, they were on another planet. I swear some of these shows are made more for adults than actual teenagers. What do the characters in Gossip Girl, PLL, and Riverdale even have in common with actual teenagers besides technically being in high school? They otherwise look and act like (very privileged) 25 year olds. I can relate to Daria in this case. I was a social outcast in high school much of the time (I didn't play sports, didn't go to parties, etc.), so I can see where she is coming from. Her wit is what helped her cope much of the time. Whenever you're in the mood, you should consider watching some episodes. They're on Dailymotion. You might like the show, you never know. And MTV didn't fire Eichler for ruining one of their best shows!? WTF?? I don't think MTV cared at all. As long as Eichler was willing to do their bidding (unlike Mike Judge), they were happy. Plus, it was 2000, and the network was starting to move away from music videos and cartoons to brainless reality shows, anyways. Daria was a holdover from an earlier era and had no relevance to MTV's future.
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Post by Tim on Jun 26, 2020 23:30:41 GMT -5
I might just do that.
The network hiring a yes man, who proceeds to ruin a good show. That's a familiar story.
The future of Snooki and her brainless friends.
You're right, there is no place for Daria among that lot.
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Daria
Jul 9, 2020 10:00:35 GMT -5
Tim likes this
Post by BettyNewbie on Jul 9, 2020 10:00:35 GMT -5
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