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Post by Tim on Dec 5, 2020 13:02:15 GMT -5
Exactly.
SPN can have strong female characters without threatening the "bromance" aspects. We can make that work here.
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Dec 5, 2020 15:00:40 GMT -5
I think most people here will have all the female supporting characters alive at the final finale barring the villains naturally. Charlie in Oz with Dorothy as Tim had it, Jo and Ellen running the Roadhouse if that's still around and The Wayward Sisters doing their thing.
With Mary I think she should just be involved in flashback form as her adult or younger self including any time travel episodes, when Sam and Dean are in heaven, someone inside their minds like the time Dean and Bobby made Sam go cold turkey and when she was a ghost during the episode the Winchester brothers went back to their childhood home but not after Amara brought her back as firstly it goes against the what is dead should stay dead comment and secondly when Mary did come back I often wondered why she was there because Mary didn't really do anything or had any major storyline she was just there if you know what I mean so in that way I'd leave her out obviously.
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Post by Tim on Dec 5, 2020 17:53:35 GMT -5
That's how I would do it. I'm sure most here feel the same way.
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Post by Trinity on Dec 5, 2020 21:13:56 GMT -5
That would be funny seeing certainly. The benders episode if Doanna's introduced instead of the other sheriff seen originally could have her arguing with Jody about her concerns over her brother missing in a scene if they worked at the same police station obviously or they could both find out about the supernatural together however that is and be lead to the Roadhouse meeting Ellen, Bobby plus Sam and Dean. Regarding death we should make sure that means something so when Dean said, "What's dead should stay dead" Originally it does then meaning no resurrection or anything otherwise a consequence happens similar to my own version of Charmed 'Styx Feet Under' when Piper and Paige lost 5 years of their live for bringing Piper's future daughter Mel back after she killed her previous episode when she was a werewolf so that doesn't happen again. I like that suggestion for how we can introduce Donna instead of that sheriff, and her concerns over her brother. That might be how both of them learn about the supernatural together. I agree with you that "What's dead should stay dead" , and consequences should happen. And to not play the resurrection card too much.
The show did this again and again with strong female characters. Let's not make that same mistake.
I said in an earlier post that the Oz episode should have been Charlie's final appearance. And here I took steps to make sure she got happy ending, and wasn't just thrown away. The other strong female characters, like Ellen and Jo, should also get better treatment, IMO.
What do you all think?
I'll put my hand up to that with not making the same mistake about strong female characters.
I like that you gave her a happy ending, and that she didn't die. I think Ellen and Jo, especially should get better treatment. I hated the fans hate for Jo in season 2 is what caused her to be thrown off by their dislike thinking she'll get with Dean, and then bringing her back two years later to be killed off. In SDOW, we can let them grow and be allies of Sam and Dean throughout the show.
I'm fine if people like Meg or Ruby are killed off, they are villains, so it wouldn't bother me too much.
Oh definitely Tim otherwise what's the point of having people for them just to die as quickly as they come in. Exactly right. Now, if someone like Ellen or Bobby or Missouri whom we meet and kept as characters from the very start, died in Season 5, that's a different story, if they had seasons of character development and stories. So they didn't just get brought in to die as quickly as they came.
I'm not sure if we'd still kill them off in 'Abandon All Hope', but that one could kill someone (especially if Season 5 is the last season, we'd have seen them from the first season and episode, so it wouldn't be so quickly) but not both Ellen and Jo, maybe Ellen dies or even Rufus or Missouri here and just one person dies not two. Jo lives on, and grows up, and or starts the Wayward Sisters crew mentoring Claire, Alex etc. to be hunters, since she'd be older, or runs the Roadhouse taking in the footsteps of her mom, and mentoring new and young hunters.
However, I'd rather all the female characters survive apart from villains. And I'd be okay, if we just kill off one major one, but only in the final season, and not earlier.
Exactly.
SPN can have strong female characters without threatening the "bromance" aspects. We can make that work here.
That they can, and we can make that work here.
That's how I would do it. I'm sure most here feel the same way.
I do.
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Post by Trinity on Dec 5, 2020 21:18:16 GMT -5
I think most people here will have all the female supporting characters alive at the final finale barring the villains naturally. Charlie in Oz with Dorothy as Tim had it, Jo and Ellen running the Roadhouse if that's still around and The Wayward Sisters doing their thing. With Mary I think she should just be involved in flashback form as her adult or younger self including any time travel episodes, when Sam and Dean are in heaven, someone inside their minds like the time Dean and Bobby made Sam go cold turkey and when she was a ghost during the episode the Winchester brothers went back to their childhood home but not after Amara brought her back as firstly it goes against the what is dead should stay dead comment and secondly when Mary did come back I often wondered why she was there because Mary didn't really do anything or had any major storyline she was just there if you know what I mean so in that way I'd leave her out obviously.
I like that with Mary, and keeping her dead, I don't see a reason to resurrect her and do that arc. You can keep her in flashback form, time travel, alternate universes, a ghost or in heaven.
Maybe she does appear in the last episode alongside John both as ghosts, when they see their parents. It depends if the story ends with 'Swan Song' or goes on, maybe if one brother dies, and the other lives out their normal life, we can show them in heaven and meeting them.
And I wished the show did more with Mary, she was just there, and was in one episode or two, and gone for 6 or 7 episodes. They did stuff with her and Alt Bobby, and it went nowhere.
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Post by Dark Avenger on Dec 5, 2020 22:51:08 GMT -5
The show did this again and again with strong female characters. Let's not make that same mistake.
I said in an earlier post that the Oz episode should have been Charlie's final appearance. And here I took steps to make sure she got happy ending, and wasn't just thrown away. The other strong female characters, like Ellen and Jo, should also get better treatment, IMO.
What do you all think?
I have to agree, do not make the same mistake the show did. Let them get treated better and stick around for quite a long time. I think most people here will have all the female supporting characters alive at the final finale barring the villains naturally. Charlie in Oz with Dorothy as Tim had it, Jo and Ellen running the Roadhouse if that's still around and The Wayward Sisters doing their thing. With Mary I think she should just be involved in flashback form as her adult or younger self including any time travel episodes, when Sam and Dean are in heaven, someone inside their minds like the time Dean and Bobby made Sam go cold turkey and when she was a ghost during the episode the Winchester brothers went back to their childhood home but not after Amara brought her back as firstly it goes against the what is dead should stay dead comment and secondly when Mary did come back I often wondered why she was there because Mary didn't really do anything or had any major storyline she was just there if you know what I mean so in that way I'd leave her out obviously. I'd love that with more female supporting characters alive at the final finale but villains if they die. I'd also want a more Buffy-like finale, where although Sam and Dean might be off with the big final battle. That the other supporting characters are shown somewhere else not far by or elsewhere taking care of end of the world things. I don't think Mary is needed to be resurrected, and used creatively in other ways. She had a good start, but after a while, they did little to nothing with her at all. Made me question her purpose.
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Post by Tim on Dec 6, 2020 0:31:25 GMT -5
We're all on the same page here in regards to the treatment of strong female characters. Excellent. I never understood the hate for Ellen and Jo that some fans had. Thankfully, we're not as fickle.
As far as Mary goes, leave her in Heaven. Maybe have her appear on someway or another, but not too often. Perhaps only on Halloween, or something like that.
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Dec 6, 2020 5:00:22 GMT -5
I don't mind a female character or two dieing in the fifth season if that's the last year and not everyone else as Kyle said because then they'd have been on a few years and not just brought on to then be killed straight afterwards of course.
Jo joining the Wayward Sisters or being a founding member with Jody and Donna who recruits Claire, Alex, Patience, and Kaia could be something else she does If Ellen just died and not her rather than run the Roundhouse at the end with someone else doing that perhaps instead.
Glad we agree on Mary not that I didn't mind her as a character just that if she does appear I'd want it to be for a reason whether it's one episode or one scene obviously.
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Post by Tim on Dec 6, 2020 12:17:05 GMT -5
Jo would have been a perfect part of the Wayward Sisters. Maybe we can make that happen.
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Post by Dark Avenger on Dec 6, 2020 21:38:38 GMT -5
We're all on the same page here in regards to the treatment of strong female characters. Excellent. I never understood the hate for Ellen and Jo that some fans had. Thankfully, we're not as fickle.
As far as Mary goes, leave her in Heaven. Maybe have her appear on someway or another, but not too often. Perhaps only on Halloween, or something like that.
I'm so glad we all are. Me either, I never got what the hate was for those two, I loved them so much. So glad we're no as fickle as some fans. I like those suggestions for how we can use Mary. Perhaps, we'd do the 300th episode where the family Dean/Sam/John/Mary were all together when Hohn returned, but change it so Mary and John who are both dead are back for a short stay on Halloween when the vial between the living and the dead is weak. That would be an appropriate episode to let the four reunite. I don't mind a female character or two dieing in the fifth season if that's the last year and not everyone else as Kyle said because then they'd have been on a few years and not just brought on to then be killed straight afterwards of course. Jo joining the Wayward Sisters or being a founding member with Jody and Donna who recruits Claire, Alex, Patience, and Kaia could be something else she does If Ellen just died and not her rather than run the Roundhouse at the end with someone else doing that perhaps instead. Glad we agree on Mary not that I didn't mind her as a character just that if she does appear I'd want it to be for a reason whether it's one episode or one scene obviously. Me too, I wouldn't mind that at all, since they'd had been around for a while, and in a final season, that won't be so soon. So if someone like Ellen or Missouri or Rufus or even Bobby died here for instance, I wouldn't feel so bad, since both were on from season 1. I like those ideas for Jo joining Wayward Sisters myself or being a founding member is even more cool. If it was just Ellen who died and not her, and perhaps she won't run the Roadhouse at the end, and someone else decides to do it. And I'd be okay with Ellen dying in the final season, but Jo living on. Maybe Bobby gets injuried in a wheelchair like in season 5, but
Jo would have been a perfect part of the Wayward Sisters. Maybe we can make that happen.
She'd be a perfect part of the Wayward Sisters, and I sure hope we can make that happen. Had she and Ellen still been alive in the show, I have no doubt, both or one of them may have been considered part of the backdoor pilot or even the founding members of the Wayward Sisters. Now we certainly can make that happen.
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Post by Tim on Dec 7, 2020 0:26:26 GMT -5
I agree.
And I'm hoping we can ditch the Leviathans. I never cared for that season, and the fans didn't either, as the ratings went down. When they went back to the Angels and Demons, the ratings went back up.
Clearly most didn't like this idea.
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Post by Trinity on Dec 7, 2020 2:37:47 GMT -5
I agree. And I'm hoping we can ditch the Leviathans. I never cared for that season, and the fans didn't either, as the ratings went down. When they went back to the Angels and Demons, the ratings went back up. Clearly most didn't like this idea. Me too. I agree, I don't see a point in adding them in at all or that season. I didn't care for the Leviathans or the season, outside of the episode that gave us Charlie and brought her in, but we've already introduced her as a friend of Sam in season 1, in a fun and better way. And I'm with you Tim, fans hated that season, they killed off Bobby, and ditched Cas who was downgraded to guest star and was almost going to be written off. Fans were not happy, they nearly killed the show. The only parts of season 7 even worth salvaging would be one or two standalone episodes, two of which introduced Garth, otherwise, nothing in Season 7, I care to include at all for SDOW. I didn't mind Eve the Mother of All Monsters in season 6, but it sucked the show burned through her story as quickly as it was introduced to move onto the boring Leviathans storyline. I didn't mind the Purgatory story either, I think that was season 8, which introduced Kevin, and Benny. Maybe Sam and Dean get trapped in Purgatory and have to be rescued by the Wayward Sisters, and Rowena does a spell to open a portal there so they can rescue them. But, I don't mind the alternate universes plot with needing to rescue them either.
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Post by Melinda Halliwell on Dec 7, 2020 5:29:56 GMT -5
I like your ideas Kyle and yes in terms of season 7 we can just skip that and like we've done already introduced Charlie earlier as Sam's college friend of course.
If we only like one or two things about a season they could be inserted into another or like I done with my Charmed fanfiction series already had season 2 and 3 as one year with episodes from both fitted together.
Your right about Eve only being around a short time which should've been longer with her been the other big bad besides Castiel and Crowley.
I like having the Wayward Sisters be the ones rescuing Sam and Dean in Purgatory with Rowena opening the portal beforehand then especially if one of their own got stuck there somehow as well giving the girls more incentive to help also.
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Post by Tim on Dec 7, 2020 12:43:54 GMT -5
Oh yeah, we gotta keep Garth. Keep his episodes, ditch the rest, IMO.
And let's ditch the Stein family as well. They came right out of left field in a season that was more or less over and seemed only to be there to murder Charlie. Since we've established that Charlie never left Oz, she can't be killed by them.
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Post by Trinity on Dec 8, 2020 6:19:34 GMT -5
I like your ideas Kyle and yes in terms of season 7 we can just skip that and like we've done already introduced Charlie earlier as Sam's college friend of course. If we only like one or two things about a season they could be inserted into another or like I done with my Charmed fanfiction series already had season 2 and 3 as one year with episodes from both fitted together. Your right about Eve only being around a short time which should've been longer with her been the other big bad besides Castiel and Crowley. I like having the Wayward Sisters be the ones rescuing Sam and Dean in Purgatory with Rowena opening the portal beforehand then especially if one of their own got stuck there somehow as well giving the girls more incentive to help also. That we can. I can see us doing that with combing seasons together. And it seemed to work well for you in your Charmed fanfics. So we could combine both S7 & S8 together, as one year with episodes from both fitted together. With Eve's defeat being at the end of S6, leading into Purgatory story. But, I can see S3 & S4 being combined into one season, since S3 was part of the writers strike season and got less episodes, and we talked about Dean's deal with the Crossroads Demon and having one year to live before going to Hell not dragging out a whole yea and season, and pulling Castiel forward one season where he pulls Dean out of hell. I do wonder if we'll add in Bela, I know she was just in one season, but she can easily be removed, if we don't want her or not, and can see Rowena being introduced with the first episode with witches, and taking her place as the recurring nemesis instead. And we can certainly do more with Eve than the show did and Purgatory with Sam and Dean stuck there. And it will fit well for the Wayward Sisters to come together.
Oh yeah, we gotta keep Garth. Keep his episodes, ditch the rest, IMO.
And let's ditch the Stein family as well. They came right out of left field in a season that was more or less over and seemed only to be there to murder Charlie. Since we've established that Charlie never left Oz, she can't be killed by them.
Exactly. Keep those episodes, ditch the rest. Yeah, let's ditch that Stein family too. I don't see what purpose that will serve, since Charlie never left Oz, so she can't be killed by them.
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