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Post by Squad 51 on Feb 12, 2021 17:49:42 GMT -5
Yeah, just enjoy the shows for what they stand for but certainly not forget what came out. On TV and behind the scenes are different things, yet sometimes I wish I never knew. *sighs*
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Post by BettyNewbie on Feb 12, 2021 18:03:21 GMT -5
James Marsters has now spoken. Whedon had been violent towards him before, and he was also disturbed by some of the material Spike was given in S6/7 (like the "Seeing Red" rape scene). So it does indeed look really bad now with what Michelle has said, BUT and this needs to be a distinction we make, we can't assume that any inappropriate behaviour towards her was sexual in nature until she actually clarifies it as such. There is a big difference between being a total tool, and being a pedophile, a sexual predator. Joss deserves to be blacklisted after this, but being a douchebag and being a pedophile are not the same thing. So far to me at least it looks like she wasn't allowed to be alone with him because he might have been rude to her, and to a 15 year old girl that can be devastating, but that isn't the same as sexual abuse. I'd rather not go down that rabbithole until we need too. It's a tricky subject, because you can't force a victim to give more details if she doesn't feel comfortable doing so. All we can do is wait and see what else Michelle says or does. Having said all that, I am not boycotting his work. Buffy, Angel, several comic runs and other bits of media that he has made, simply because when I thought about it logically, he isn't the only person involved in those things. Actors, other crew members, writers, directors, producers, artists etc, those people don't deserve to have their royalties slashed just becuase the man in charge was a dick. I'm starting to feel this way more and more as creators are revealed to be horrid. An infamous example in recent times is JK Rowling, she's hateful, but what about her editors, publishing team and company? The actors and crew members who worked on the movie adaptions? Do they deserve to have their money slashed because of her? Nope. So I'm feeling this way about Joss' works as well, he's a horrid, abusive piece of scum and I hope he gets what he deserves, but not at the cost of the many thousands and thousands of people he has worked with who are good people who don't deserve to be punished for his crimes. To be fair, I feel like this is a somewhat different case from JKR/HP. Unlike a book, a TV show is far more than just a single author. You have a team of writers, producers, and actors putting their creative juices into a TV show. The Buffy Summers we all know and love is just as much a product of SMG's portrayal of her as she is Whedon's writing (otherwise, Miss MAGA's portrayal from the movie would be nearly as popular and every game/comic/cartoon version of her wouldn't look like SMG). And, there have always been people who were fans of the Buffyverse, but not Whedon himself (evidenced by how much Firefly/Dollhouse flopped compared to Buffy/Angel -- their fanbases actually didn't overlap all that much). Same goes for all the people who love his MCU stuff because they love MCU stuff, not because his name is attached to it.
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Post by Tim on Feb 12, 2021 19:08:15 GMT -5
Guess Marti Noxon isn't looking so bad anymore (wonder if Whedon ever mistreated her).
But the evidence grows bigger and bigger as more actors are speaking out against Whedon. If you ask me, he should be blacklisted, like Kernus has been.
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Post by BettyNewbie on Feb 12, 2021 19:37:20 GMT -5
Guess Marti Noxon isn't looking so bad anymore (wonder if Whedon ever mistreated her).
She actually just spoke out, herself. No word on what kind of relationship she had with Whedon, though.
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Post by Tim on Feb 13, 2021 0:53:12 GMT -5
Another voice is added.
The list of accusers continues to grow. There is no longer any doubt now, is there.
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Post by Squad 51 on Feb 13, 2021 9:40:48 GMT -5
Nope. There's all said and done, obviously.
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Post by adzpower on Feb 13, 2021 10:05:55 GMT -5
Stil boggles my mind that some creatives can be such horrible people, using your talent to make such amazing things but then being a complete and utter douche behind the scenes. Its really not hard to just be polite. Even if you don't personally like some of the actors you work with, show some damn professionalism, grit your teeth and get through it so long as they are being reasonable, decent colleagues.
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Post by BettyNewbie on Feb 13, 2021 11:43:07 GMT -5
Stil boggles my mind that some creatives can be such horrible people, using your talent to make such amazing things but then being a complete and utter douche behind the scenes. Its really not hard to just be polite. Even if you don't personally like some of the actors you work with, show some damn professionalism, grit your teeth and get through it so long as they are being reasonable, decent colleagues. It sometimes feels like Whedon's fame got to his head. Buffy was not only a runaway hit that seemingly came from nowhere, but it also garnered heaps of critical praise for being "groundbreaking" and "feminist." And, Buffy's success was always attributed to Whedon himself and nobody else. When every critic is treating him like a special supergenius capable of doing no wrong, it's no surprise that he saw himself that way. Of course, the grand irony is that he needed to hitch himself to The Mouse to see any real success after Buffy/Angel. Firefly/Serenity and Dollhouse were flops. His name alone really isn't a draw to anyone outside of a small cult fanbase. There was clearly something else non-Whedon-related about Buffy/Angel that gave them broader appeal. He only scored a hit with the MCU stuff because it's MCU, and that shit prints money regardless of who's writing or directing. And, even then, his last Avengers movie was not warmly-received. And, what happened after he jumped over to DC, and they gave him carte blanche on the Justice League? A total box office bomb!Maybe... Whedon wasn't that good in the first place.
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Post by Tim on Feb 13, 2021 12:16:31 GMT -5
And this is not going to make his stock any better.
Yeah, he's done.
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Post by BettyNewbie on Feb 13, 2021 13:50:54 GMT -5
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Post by Squad 51 on Feb 13, 2021 14:28:38 GMT -5
Oh yeah, neverending story with men in Hollywood! *sighs*
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Post by Colton on Feb 13, 2021 16:35:28 GMT -5
Been busy this past week. Only just heard the news from from my friend texting me.
Omg! Just goes to show you, that eventually we should truly separate characters from actors and writers. It make you want to just pay little attention to stars with all we've heard in the last six years. And take a step back and wonder just who is good and who is bad.
Hollywood is a bad place for fifty years or more. I'm sure this isn't just the 90s and 00s but men have been like this going back further to 60s-80s. It would break my heart if stars in the 60s or 70s who are no longer with us went through crap and had to accept that until their deaths.
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Post by Tim on Feb 13, 2021 18:48:37 GMT -5
Hope Buffy fans separate the actors from their characters. If these allegations are true, this it the only way the fandom will survive.
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Post by Katie on Feb 13, 2021 20:37:03 GMT -5
Hope Buffy fans separate the actors from their characters. If these allegations are true, this it the only way the fandom will survive. I sure can. Like any other show that has had some bad blood behind the scenes. You have to separate characters from actors/producers/writers. I'm just going to refuse to ever re-watch any DVD bonus features now, since it has Whedon all over them. But, I'll re-watch the episodes. But we are in a day and age, when this is just going to be common. Hollywood is toxic, and this has been going on for decades and decades. I've heard stories about Steven Spielberg movie sets being toxic, so this has been going on for a long time, probably since the 50s or 60s on movie and television sets. We just have to separate the two, otherwise, we'll never be able to re-watch anything we love again, if more allegations come out from beloved shows and movies. But this is a good way to make change if more speak out and the white men are put in their place. So the next generation can have better working environments for all, especially women.
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Post by Tim on Feb 14, 2021 12:25:06 GMT -5
Guess that's the only way.
Same with Charmed. Watch the episodes and such, but avoid anything with interviews with Kernus on them.
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