|
Post by BettyNewbie on Feb 14, 2021 12:46:46 GMT -5
Charmed has it fairly easy compared to Buffy/Angel. I can easily deal with Kernus (whose allegations aren't even as severe as Whedon's) by just sticking to the first three seasons, where his influence was lesser. I can pretend that the show ended with "Sin Francisco," and Prue never died. It also helps that none of the Charmed actors themselves have shown themselves to be super-problematic, either (aside from Rose MAGAowan -- just another reason to stick to S1-3). But, Buffyverse fans have a ginormous mess to deal with, and I don't envy them one bit. Maybe, this might be a good time to promote good fanfics?
|
|
|
Post by Dark Avenger on Feb 14, 2021 17:59:25 GMT -5
Guess that's the only way.
Same with Charmed. Watch the episodes and such, but avoid anything with interviews with Kernus on them.
Same here. I'll do the same, and Kernus I've forgotten what he talks like, as I've barely seen much interviews with him and going to keep it that way.
Charmed has it fairly easy compared to Buffy/Angel. I can easily deal with Kernus (whose allegations aren't even as severe as Whedon's) by just sticking to the first three seasons, where his influence was lesser. I can pretend that the show ended with "Sin Francisco," and Prue never died. It also helps that none of the Charmed actors themselves have shown themselves to be super-problematic, either (aside from Rose MAGAowan -- just another reason to stick to S1-3). But, Buffyverse fans have a ginormous mess to deal with, and I don't envy them one bit. Maybe, this might be a good time to promote good fanfics?
Me either. I don't envy them at all.
Yeah, promoting good fanfics might be the way. Might encourage some to do a series rewrite the way CCDOW and SDOW have done. Although, I'll admit, in terms of writing Charmed went downhill a lot faster than Buffy/Angel. It was during Buffy S6/Angel S3 that things really changed for the worse.
Now thinking back, I wonder if SMG was punished by Whedon for what he put Buffy through in S6 (especially for telling the press I believe that she would leave if Buffy left the WB, I wonder if she wanted to leave at S5, but her contract prevented her from doing so), now I don't blame her for wanting to quit/leave after S7. Alyson really was angry SMG decided to say she is leaving in the press apparently. I wonder, if SMG did that as a way to force the show to end, so she could be free without anything behind the scenes stopping it.
Alyson still hasn't said anything about Whedon, of course, I think she may or won't anytime soon. She is close with Joss as she is godmother to his son I believe.
|
|
|
Post by BettyNewbie on Feb 14, 2021 21:57:00 GMT -5
Yeah, promoting good fanfics might be the way. Might encourage some to do a series rewrite the way CCDOW and SDOW have done. Although, I'll admit, in terms of writing Charmed went downhill a lot faster than Buffy/Angel. It was during Buffy S6/Angel S3 that things really changed for the worse. Buffy S6/Angel S3/Charmed S4 all aired during the same TV season (2001-02). A sign that these shows had no place in a post-9/11 world, perhaps? Now thinking back, I wonder if SMG was punished by Whedon for what he put Buffy through in S6 (especially for telling the press I believe that she would leave if Buffy left the WB, I wonder if she wanted to leave at S5, but her contract prevented her from doing so), now I don't blame her for wanting to quit/leave after S7. Alyson really was angry SMG decided to say she is leaving in the press apparently. I wonder, if SMG did that as a way to force the show to end, so she could be free without anything behind the scenes stopping it. Alyson still hasn't said anything about Whedon, of course, I think she may or won't anytime soon. She is close with Joss as she is godmother to his son I believe. Good observations, Dark Avenger. I read a little while back that Whedon mocked SMG for doing Cruel Intentions, dismissing the film as "smut" (yet, somehow, having nothing to say about Alyson doing American Pie around the same time ). And, he clearly hated her dying her hair brown for the movie, because Buffy had the most hideous looking hair in S3, as if he had ordered the show's wardrobe department to get revenge on her. Especially, when you contrast this with how "hot" Faith and "cute" Willow looked the same season. Whedon wanted his two faves to look prettier than "diva" SMG.
|
|
|
Post by Astral Echo on Feb 14, 2021 22:33:25 GMT -5
These situations are never black and white. Film/TV sets have been problematic places since day one. Men with more power then they have any business wielding will sadly always find ways to abuse it. But then it's not just men either, they're the primary abusers sure, but I believe absolute powers corrupts absolutely. Was Sarah Michelle Gellar difficult to work with at times? Possibly. Could Shannen Doherty be a bit of diva? Sure, she's admitted as much. But does that mean that execs like Whedon and Kern can treat them however they like? Absolutely not.
I don't want to sound like I'm some sort of apologist or anything but I'm sure they're many factors at play here. That doesn't lessen the blame that should be placed at Whedon's door and his own silence speaks volumes. But before jumping to any conclusions, remember that we don't have all the facts. Unless an investigation is done or the likes of Charisma or Michelle or any of the other victims choose to elaborate, we have to stick to what we know.
What we know is Whedon was most likely an egotistical asshole who abused his power. Does that mean we cannot enjoy Buffy/Angel or anything he has helped produce? No. As I said in a Charmed thread, we need to be able to separate the art from the power behind it. Many brilliant minds went into creating these shows and many fantastic writers, directors, producers and actors were involved in the episodes they produced. We should hold on that and the lessons these shows taught us and block out those who have sullied their own legacies.
|
|
|
Post by Tim on Feb 15, 2021 0:23:56 GMT -5
I'm just glad that the truth about these men is out. Fans can judge for themselves whether they want to stay fans or not.
|
|
|
Post by Squad 51 on Feb 15, 2021 9:46:30 GMT -5
Indeed. Better late than never. Really hard to say what happened behind the scenes back then. Most of the time, I really don't want to know. Only to enjoy the show.
|
|
|
Post by Astral Echo on Feb 15, 2021 11:00:52 GMT -5
Never nice to think of someone you're fond of suffering though. And equally, for those that looked up to Whedon (which I'll admit I did) it's actually really hard to have everything you thought you knew pissed on. I'd never heard about him being difficult to work with and I admired his writing so it does come and a bit of a blow. That said, we can learn from him. Just because the man is an arse, doesn't mean the work that he produced in somehow invalid. He did still create great character dramas and inspired many, many young writers.
|
|
|
Post by BettyNewbie on Feb 15, 2021 11:42:37 GMT -5
Never nice to think of someone you're fond of suffering though. And equally, for those that looked up to Whedon (which I'll admit I did) it's actually really hard to have everything you thought you knew pissed on. I'd never heard about him being difficult to work with and I admired his writing so it does come and a bit of a blow. That said, we can learn from him. Just because the man is an arse, doesn't mean the work that he produced in somehow invalid. He did still create great character dramas and inspired many, many young writers. It doesn't help that, for a long time, critics propped him up as some kind of "groundbreaking feminist progressive" and even handed him awards for it. And, he clearly believed every bit of that swill, too, especially if he could use it as a Get Out of Jail Card for his deeply misogynistic behavior. The red flags were always there in his writing, and his unused 2006 Wonder Woman script was all kinds of horrible. Whedon may have created Buffy/Angel, but he wasn't the sole writer on either show. You can't discount the influence of those other writers (as well as the actors). Critics made a mistake when they attributed Buffy/Angel's success solely to Whedon himself.
|
|
|
Post by Tim on Feb 15, 2021 12:51:47 GMT -5
Well, he can't hide anymore. Not with so many of the actors and production staff speaking out.
|
|
|
Post by Astral Echo on Feb 15, 2021 15:09:19 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Squad 51 on Feb 15, 2021 17:21:23 GMT -5
Well, the cast still seems to be helping each other, even though just privately. Good to hear and know.
|
|
|
Post by BettyNewbie on Feb 15, 2021 18:55:44 GMT -5
Some people prefer to communicate that way. Very easy for that fact to get lost in the era of social media. We don't know how many others have reached out to her in private.
|
|
|
Post by Tim on Feb 15, 2021 19:26:00 GMT -5
Yeah, not everyone is comfortable posting out where everyone can see. Some like to keep private.
|
|
|
Post by Trinity on Feb 15, 2021 19:49:24 GMT -5
Yeah, some people online really do make it hard and are expecting stars to post their every detail online. I mean poor Holly got so much crap for not posting about Shannen online when she did so privately, and they talk this way.
But, in the age of social media, if someone doesn't say anything online, magically the trolls come out for them. We have to remember that most of the stars grew up in a pre-Social media age, so communicating privately in the 80s or 90s was how it always was.
|
|
|
Post by Katie on Feb 15, 2021 21:26:50 GMT -5
Yeah, some people online really do make it hard and are expecting stars to post their every detail online. I mean poor Holly got so much crap for not posting about Shannen online when she did so privately, and they talk this way. But, in the age of social media, if someone doesn't say anything online, magically the trolls come out for them. We have to remember that most of the stars grew up in a pre-Social media age, so communicating privately in the 80s or 90s was how it always was. That is the problem with social media, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.
|
|